Selection Bias

A while back while talking to my mom on the phone, I heard about how her friend’s daughter was recently left by her husband.  Apparently, she was a very dutiful wife who helped him build a business from scratch.  He was very careful with what he did with his money so that when he left, she got zilch.

My mom isn’t massively hostile to lots of manosphere concepts (she’s ostensibly anti-feminist), but every once in a while if I’m just a little too critical of Team Woman, the claws come out.  This was one of those times.  I had been bringing up how often women end marriage, and it was time for the “Look, there’s two sides to this!”

Of course, there are “two sides to this”, and everything else.  Both men and women have ended marriages for awful reasons for as long as there have been marriages.

Yet somehow we hear about the successful man ditching his wife for a “newer model” a hell of a lot more often than the likes of Jenny Erikson.

Aside from media bias, there’s another weapon that women have finely honed through the centuries:  gossip.  When a man leaves his wife, rightly or wrongly, she talks to her friends, family, and co-workers.  Her friends, family, and co-workers talk to their friends, family, and co-workers.  They clump together at the beauty salon, while setting up for the church picnic, in work breakrooms, during girls night out, and share each others’ misfortunes to cries of sympathy.  Everybody within this extensive social circle knows that Carla got screwed over by an unscrupulous male.  Each member of every gaggle learns of every wonderful thing Carla ever did for him (slightly exaggerated, of course) and every awful thing he ever did to her (slightly exaggerated, or course).  Will any members of any of these gaggles ever know if Carla had turned into an insufferable nag?  If she gained 150 lbs. after having their last kid and refused to ever leave the couch?  If she cheated on him with her personal trainer?  If she kept using his credit cards for exorbitant sprees at the mall and spa?

Hells to the no.

I’m not saying those things are valid reasons to break up a marriage (although I’ll definitely say they’re valid reasons for a man to keep his woman in line), but there might be two sides to the story.  You can bet your bottom dollar that very few of the gaggles in question are philosophical bodies in search of objective Truth.

Of course, their husbands, boyfriends, and children also hear the amplified stories.  Yet another innocent victim of the Patriarchy, burned for relying too much on a man.

For all I know my mother’s friend’s daughter was completely innocent and screwed over in every sense of the word (although if she’s anything like her fat loudmouth mother I doubt it), but if that wasn’t the case, there’s no way in hell I’d ever know.

Contrast that with what men do.  The man will tell his closest friends, maybe some co-workers.  Other men will nod in sympathy, perhaps say “Frank’s really getting screwed over by that bitch” in the breakroom, but we’ll never blast it from the rooftops like the women will.

If it turns into a He Said/She Said at the local church, guess who’s going to win.

There are, have been, and always will be cases in which men do women genuine harm.  However, women are far from innocent, and like my mother said, “there are two sides to this.”

Tell that to a group of men and they’ll get it.  Tell that to a gaggle of females commiserating over what some bastard did to one of them and you may find yourself in physical danger.

Men don’t generally feel proud of victimhood the same way as women.  That’s great insofar as it goes, but we’ve got to learn the difference between senseless bitching and genuine claims for justice, and act accordingly.

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22 Responses to Selection Bias

  1. Great post! 🙂 Mostly I agree with you.. but I do know men here who don’t keep it to themselves what their wives have done, in fact one of the biggest threats a man will use against a woman is, “I’m calling your father and telling him all about you!” lol , but still not to the whole village.

    One of my closest friend’s husband left her and her 4 children last year, for a prostitute he had fallen in love with. He left her with with a lot of debt he’d left in her name because he was bankrupt, and she’s left trying to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives. I also know a man whose wife left with his 2 children recently, he’s completely heartbroken and a huge mess, but he’s ready to talk all about it.

    But mostly I agree that generally men aren’t going to talk about it as much. We have the stereotype of the men being the one to leave their wives, even here. But it happens the other way around too, I’m fully aware of that with my own mother being the one to divorce my father. And my father always warned me from of women’s “powers of persuasion” and gossip towards one another. There’ll be gossip about he said/she said, you’re right, but the fact is there’s good men and good women out there. For every woman that is telling everyone about her divorce and who’s fault it was, there’ll also be a man not going around blabbing about it. Generally women are seeking that support from the “herd”, I KNOW this from working in a salon and it’s a huge headache, you feel like you are in a soap opera! where as a man is more likely(but not always) to suffer silently. Sad.

    • Martel says:

      There’s often an unspoken assumption that if a marriage breaks up (no matter who did the breaking) that it’s the man’s fault. I think this adds to women’s sense of righteousness and makes men less inclined to bring stuff up. He often probably either subconsciously sees it as his fault himself or doesn’t see much point in defending himself because he’ll get all the blame no matter what he says.

      Also, we consider ourselves to be strong, so it’s harder for us to seek out help even when we need it.

  2. Exactly.

    In a he said/she said situation, it’s not about what each said or it’s truth. It is simply about how often and emotionally it is said.

    Women will win.

    • Martel says:

      Especially with all the gammas and omegas out there who are terrified of their own wives. Side with the man and there may be hell to pay.

  3. Hannah says:

    I was just thinking about this today. How many times do we hear that some husband has abandoned his wife after so many years together, running off with a younger woman etc…. You can take that information at face value and sympathise with the woman till the cows come home, but what goes unsaid might be the actual truth of the matter.
    What if he’s been nagged/manipulated/controlled/unsexed (ok that’s not a word but you know!) for the past however many decades, and finally THIS moment broke the camel’s back?!
    Nobody’s going to hear that kind of information, only the sadness of the wife who’s left behind – her life in ruins but reputation intact. Maybe she gets extra moral points for revealing a pornography issue that drove them apart… whatever it takes to get people on her side.
    The freed man’s not going to defend his hatred of the cage, given that talking in such a way is something females tend to indulge in rather than men – so people judge knowing only part of the story.

    We watched an interesting Iranian movie the other night called ‘A Separation’ that I think showed very well the real truth of the husband’s side, and from where I’m sitting it’s as plain as day that what Leap of a Beta says is true. Women will win. But it’s not right.

    • Martel says:

      Regarding the porn issue I think you hit on something else. I suspect that women are far more likely to air the man’s dirty laundry for the world to see than he is. If she was obsessed with Twilight or something, he’ll either see it as not worth mentioning or that it will reflect badly on him (he wasn’t man enough to be the focus of her affections). If he’s got a porn problem, it’s HIS FAULT, and she’ll make sure the world knows about it.

      • Hannah says:

        Yes that’s what I was getting at… that a man is more likely to stick to the first rule of Fight Club.

        Even in ‘good times’, wives tend to vent about their husband’s weak points within a coffee group situation… oftentimes there’ll be a general ‘let’s have a laugh about husband’s’ kind of feel to the whole ladies lunch thing.

        Do men do this about their wives when they’re out playing pool together or whatever? I don’t think so. Not long ago a guy at my husband’s work was complaining about the flavour of muffins his wife had sent in for him to share, insulting her as he went. My man was disgusted by his workmate’s lack of discretion and said he thought it was nice she sent food in for them all to share, and apparently all the other guys turned the conversation around within seconds. I was impressed with this, it barely ever turns out this way in women’s circles. Rather than a rebuke, there’s more chance other’s will chime in with an example of her own man’s apparent foolishness.

        Given that’s the general tone of things, it’s no surprise that when it all hits the fan, NO area is out of bounds for a grieved wife to use against her ex-beloved in her quest for empathy.

  4. earl says:

    When it comes to two sides…the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

    However when men try to explain their side of the truth…that is when women will shriek. Nobody messes with their bubble.

    • Martel says:

      Of course, men being firm and holding their ground can be far more intimidating than the shrieks of the herd. But we’ve been emasculated, so we don’t do that very much.

      • earl says:

        I actually had to do that last night. The herd was pushing me in one direction…and I held my ground. Now I don’t know if I’ll get the result I want as the answer is still forthcoming…but I’m just proud that I drew a line in the stand and stood for something.

  5. M3 says:

    Just a few points:

    1. i was opposite, i blurted it out to the world (and eventually the bloggosphere lol) Tho in my defense, at the time i was heavily beta and reacting emotionally (devastated to be exact) so you’ll forgive my ‘womanly’ emotional reaction to it. But more importantly, i wanted to destroy the facade she erected. I needed people to see her for who she really was.. not what she painted herself to be.

    2. I’ve written before about the ‘old man leaving/trading up the wife for a younger model’ as more urban legend than reality. In truth it only affects Hollywood/Upper Business elite. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it’s much like SMV, when you’re seriously mismatched, chances are there’s no glue to hold it. We all are supposed to recoil in horror as a woman who has aged considerably is left by a man who has aged well and has wealth and provisioning beyond measure.. on paper the SMV disparity at that point is a gulf the size of the grand canyon.. but we are supposed to ‘feel’ for her for “all she did for him” and ignore the SMV mismatch.

    Yet, there is no reversal of ‘feel when the SMV roles switch. A man dutifully married to a woman, provided for her. He is beta, she can still pull guys if she wants. As years go by and he becomes more beta, more unattractive, more simping, more doormatish, he loses his hair, grows a gut and loses his job. She leaves him to fuck Renaldo the hot barrister. He is left because his SMV is so beneath her that she is granted license to leave him because of it. And it is given legitimacy by her girlfriends who tell her she did the right thing, to find what made her happy, made her feel alive again. Eat Pray Love. Given legitimacy by the guys who say ‘Dude, look at her, she’s still hot, what were you expecting?” And we are simply to commit to the memory hole “all he did for her” and focus solely on the SMV.

    • earl says:

      And as a result…I feel like I’ve already won.

    • Martel says:

      You made the different mistake (if it even was one) of making yourself heard. Lots of betas mistake “shut up and take it” for “alpha”, so they let injustices go unaddressed. Ironically, sometimes I think that “bitching” a little bit might be the more “manly” move. Even if it’s too emotional or whiny, at least it’s standing up for yourself.

      2. Great points about SMV. A man’s loss of SMV is a reflection of wimpiness, a woman’s loss of SMV is an injustice.

      Do you remember where you wrote about men “trading up” being a myth? I’d like to read it.

      • M3 says:

        It’s smattered about in this post:

        With the exception of Politics (John McCain) and Hollywood.. it doesn’t happen. The only reason the lie continues to exist is because the high profile nature of the people in question puts it in the national conscious awareness. You hear about crime on the news every night, the city must be under siege right? Crime statistics would reveal otherwise.

        The majority of men on the planet do not have that SMV power to blow up a marriage and trade up. And a great majority that do have that ability still won’t because they are following their feminine imperative programming that Rollo speaks of here:

        “..there exist more Alpha Men also conditioned to be servants of the Feminine Imperative. These men make for some of the most self-evincing White Knights you’ll ever meet and are usually the first men to “defend the honor” of the feminine and women for whom they lack a real awareness of. “

      • M3 says:

        Sorry, meant to say Newt Gingrich.. not McCain.

      • Martel says:

        I think that both Gingrich and McCain did it, so you’re good either way.

        I liked that post a lot btw. We can all relate to your experience in the coffee shop.

  6. Jeremy says:

    …in fact one of the biggest threats a man will use against a woman is, “I’m calling your father and telling him all about you!” lol , but still not to the whole village.

    Excellent point, and there’s more to this. I’ve never seen a woman very comfortable with her man getting very close to her own father. I suspect that well-adjusted ladies would have no problem with this, but I’ve not seen it from that side. Maybe I’ve just not seen this situation with a well-adjusted woman, or it just has no visible signs of stress when the woman is emotionally stable. I’ve always felt a bit of suspicion from a girl I was dating when I spent time and got very friendly with her father. I suspect that for many women, the idea of their SO having a rational understanding of life between themselves and dad feels like their position is weakened. I suspect that women feel the need for an “escape hatch” that dear old dad can provide should she need to try to grab control of frame from her man, and this means that a true friendship between her dad and her man is a threat because it eliminates an avenue of retreat.

    • Stand Watie says:

      I suspect that women feel the need for an “escape hatch” that dear old dad can provide should she need to try to grab control of frame from her man, and this means that a true friendship between her dad and her man is a threat because it eliminates an avenue of retreat.

      For most of my marriage, my ex bitched that I wasn’t close enough to her father, that I should spend more time with him, etc. Then just prior to pulling the trigger and blowing things up, she decided that I was *too* close to him.

      After she left, she demanded that my relationship with him (and the rest of her family) come to an end. At that point I had a good therapist, who introduced me to ideas like boundaries, masculinity, etc. So, I said … no.

      Oh, did that not make her happy.

      I still have a very good relationship with them. And she still isn’t happy about it. Oh well.

      • infowarrior1 says:

        And then there are women who are children of lesbian parents. I have seen personally not a few lesbian couples with all female broods.

  7. Mina says:

    Men don’t leave their wives unless the wife gives them a reason to do so. Especially if there are children involved. For the record, my Dad and my husband were great friends and spent time doing things together in which I was not invited to participate 😉 I am sure that says something about how I view marriage and why I am still married after 20 years.

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