The Quiver

Unlike some of the other male writers in the Christian Manosphere, I’m not a virgin, and I’ve never been married.  I’ve been well-behaved for a while now, and I have a great deal of respect for those who’ve been able to live up to their beliefs more consistently than I have.  Still, I’ve done what I’ve done, although that’s different than what I do.

I didn’t particularly want to share this stuff with my readers.  After all, I’m advocating Christian concepts, and some of the experiences I’m about to relate are decidedly un-Christian.  However, I urge you to remember that there’s no way we would have conceived of Game as we understand it today without the Hedonistic pick-up artists.   A great husband can describe how he manages his wife, but only somebody interacting with massive amounts of women and (for better or for worse) bedding some of them could have acquired the requisite body of knowledge to develop the tools that Christians can now use to wife-hunt.

Likewise, I believe that Game can be taken in directions even deeper and broader, that it’s applications can transform both our relationships and our society to an extent not yet explored in full, and it’s my own experiences that lead me to believe this.

So despite my hesitancy, I have three reasons to expound a bit on what I’ve been like at times.

First, there’s an assumption among many that those who don’t, can’t.  There’s reason to think this way; unappealing spinsters who’ve never had the opportunity to lose their virtue have been among those most loudly condemning women who lose their virtue at least since the days of Fielding’s Tom Jones (the greatest book in the Western canon that nobody reads any more), and we all know that some who “go their own way” only do so because nobody wants to take them along.

Although it’s fair to suspect that somebody who’s not getting laid simply can’t get laid, it’s not fair to assume it.  Through relating a bit of what I’ve done before I had ever even heard of Game with some (but not too much) detail, I’m hoping to lend some credibility to my own convictions, and hopefully it will rub off on some of my allies.

Second, a couple of months ago in the comments, after I related a situation in which I used rhetoric (Game’s political sibling), a prominent female blogger noticed what I did and why it was significant.  We exchanged emails in which I related something similar I did on a date that inspired an intense reaction, and her comments helped to bring into focus what had previously only been a remotely vague notion in the back of my brain somewhere:  What I’m doing, like the more PUA-related aspects of Game, can be dissected and formulated into a pattern.  Before discovering this, there was no point to relating it, for it seems to contradict a lot of what we say in the Manosphere (but doesn’t actually contradict it any more than the New Testament contradicts the Old).  There’s no point to relating random anecdotes, especially when you’re going to get flamed for them and won’t have a coherent defense.  But now I’m at least a little confident that I’ll be able to handle some of the fiery arrows that may come my way.

The blogger in question is free to announce her role in this if, when, and how she chooses.  I thank her and support her decision whatever it may be.

Third, much of what I’ll be relating will strike many of you (especially the Hedonists) as theoretical wishful thinking.  I’ve got to show that what I advocate isn’t mere theory, it’s what I’ve seen and experienced in my own life.  I don’t promote G just for the hell of it, I do it because I know it’s real, because I know He’s real.  I’m painfully aware of what can happen when we fail to recognize the world as it is, but A without G is the life of a primate.  Only sociopaths can replicate happiness without it.

Despite the mistakes I’ve made, they demonstrate some important truths.  At the time, I had a blast, and it was only much later that I realized how I was harmed.  Still, in the midst of my errors I did some very important things right.  The good things are what I want to share, and I won’t be able to get into detail in this post, but they won’t make any sense without context.

In these parts of the internet we tend to be more forgiving of a male’s sexual transgressions than those of females (or even celebrate them and don’t call them “transgressions”).  If I disappoint you, that sucks.  I want to keep you as a reader, and I’m only doing this because there’s a larger Truth at stake that I can’t expect anyone to take on faith who’s not already inclined in that direction.

Three Weeks

A while back, I was staying at a touristy spot in a prominent Western European city.  In the social area of my domicile (a youth hostel), after a long conversation with a girl from Oregon, without my prompting, she invited me to go to bed with her.  I obliged.  The next night she almost got into a fight with some English girl because if the English girl had her way it would have prevent me for spending another night with her.  She didn’t manage to change the English girl’s mind, but we found a way to do what we wanted despite her misgivings.

I found out that she went for me the night after she rejected a guy who had been the starting linebacker for a Division I-A university back in the states a year earlier.  Not good enough for the NFL, but about a foot taller than me, and they type of guy who had always gotten the girls I wanted.

I overheard her traveling partner concede to the Oregonian that her hookup in that particular city was better than hers just before they left.  I slept well that night.  That wouldn’t happen again for a while.

I knew a Belgian with whom I had exchanged flirtations when the Oregonian wasn’t around and planned to go there next.  However, before anything with the Belgian could develop, I met a New Yorker.  I liked the New Yorker more (quality over flags), and she made it apparent that she found me attractive, so much to the obvious chagrin of the Belgian, the New Yorker got what she wanted.  After a couple of nights, the New Yorker and her brother went to another city.

I was a zombie, I had nowhere to crash during the day and had to get up very early in the morning to perform my job as an illegal exploited laborer.  When I returned, I went to a table with some friends and saw the very pretty face of an Australian at their table.  I didn’t talk to her.  I could hardly talk at all.  I mumbled stuff to them for a few minutes and went to bed.

The next evening (I think I got a full five hours of sleep!), I noticed two English guys talking to the Australian.  They were trying to get her to go to a bar with them.  She greeted me as if we were fast friends and gradually eased them out of the conversation.  When we were alone and I expressed my intentions, she told me that the moment we could get some privacy, she’d go to it.  She meant it.

Later that night, she told me that she wanted to go the night before but that I was obviously too tired.  This surprised me, for despite my ignorance of Game, I was unaware of any special appeal of The Men Who Can’t Keep Their Eyes Open.  She also wanted to keep things secret.  She only had two friends there.  Whatever.

The next day I was talking to the two friends, also Australians, a sister and a brother.  I had merely exchanged small-talk with them on previous occasions.  The minute the brother went off to the bathroom, I found out why my hookup wanted to keep things secret: it was to prevent drama.  Her friend, entirely unaware of the previous night’s happenings, came on to me.  Hard.

After some further dalliances with the Australian on subsequent evenings, I found myself without any companions yet again (which was fine by me because I needed sleep).  I saw the football player talking to a cute little Brazilian.  I joined the conversation and performed about as well as I had the night I met the Australian.  The football player, who had become my friend but could easily squash me like a grape, had to leave for a moment.  I had made nothing even remotely resembling a hint to the Brazilian (grape-squasher evidently wanted her), but she started making noises about how she and I should go for a walk, NOW, before he could get back.  Unfortunately, I couldn’t really walk, so a romantic meander through the streets would have been out of the question.  Through my eyelids, I think I saw a endearingly touching expression of disappointment, but I needed sleep.  Desculpe, baby.

I got some sleep, but evidently not enough.  The next night, I saw a table of several Americans I have never met before.  I greeted them, found out that the blonde was from Alabama, and decided I wanted her.  After some conversation, the group changed location.  I held the Alabaman back for a moment, asked for a kiss, and got it.

We talked all together for a while, and I eventually persuaded the Alabaman to go to a different room with me.  We began making out, passionately.  Unfortunately, even though we were standing up with her leaning against a wall, I fell asleep, apparently in the midst of kissing her.

Don’t ask me how.  I don’t remember.  I do remember how pissed she was the next day, though.

The next two nights, I slept.  I avoided women and went to be as soon as I returned from my post laboring illegally.  They can’t get you if you hide.

And then, energy!  I was talking with some Americans and an Australian dude who had a Swedish girlfriend (she was a short variation of the  fantasy Swede).  An American girl came over, and the American guys tried to get somewhere with her.  They struck out.  I told them what they did wrong.  The Australian agreed and said I gave great advice.  Along came a Canadian female, and the Yanks failed again.  I didn’t find her particularly attractive, but I started spewing my “Game” just to show them what’s what.  Her friends came by to drag her away,but before she let them, she wanted to make sure that I would be there later that night.  I left her hanging.  The Australian asked if I taught classes.

I spent about a half hour talking to some dudes from Italy or something, and I noticed a spunky brunette across the way.  “I want her” I thought.  I walked over to her and said something.  An hour later we were making out.

But Alex (the one who deserves to be named) had a line that she would not let me cross.  Prior to these three weeks I had developed some really lethal Endgame, and it’s the type of Endgame that works best on girls who aren’t inclined to be slutty (no, I’m not telling you:  good girls have enough to worry about without me making things even harder for them: suffice to say that I’ve only encountered one PUA who does anything even remotely similar, and it’s my intention to keep it that way).  We went on walks, held hands, and made out, but we only went so far.

One night, she went to a concert with some friends for a band that was famous at the time.  I found out later they had backstage passes.  The lead singer of the band (who you’ll recognize if and only if you’re Gen X) spilled a drink on her and then tried to get with her (witnesses confirmed this).  She rejected him to come back to me.

My last night there, I scheduled a cab to take me to the airport at 5 AM.  I was with Alex, and Alex was losing it.  Alex crossed one of her lines and was about to cross that line just after 4, but then the cab showed up.*

What Does Any of This Have to Do with Anything?

First, I’m sure that there are countless PUA’s out there that can relate experiences far more “impressive” than this.  I can relate plenty of similar experiences, and as time progresses, I might.  But for me, quantity isn’t the point.

As I was doing this, I never lied to any of them.  I didn’t do anything to make them uncomfortable beyond teasing.  I treated all of them like they were people, people with hopes, fears, dreams, and feelings.  I talked about my own hopes, dreams, and fears.  I was a really nice guy.

Did I have Game?  Hell, yes, even though I didn’t call it that.  But I think I had something more.  I didn’t just get laid.  I heard:

You’re completely not my type.  I usually like assholes, but there’s something about you…

When I’m with you, I just can’t explain it, but I’ve never felt this way before.

I had no idea a guy in real life could actually be like this.

And ever since, even after I reverted to betahood, I haven’t had the option of casual hook-ups.  They started out casual, but the women got really intense afterwards, every time.  I know that women naturally feel more emotional bonding after sex than men, but I’ve talked to a lot of friends and read a lot in the Manosphere, and what’s happened to me repeatedly simply doesn’t happen very much.

This is part of why I’m holding back with parts of my Game (the reasons for that will take another post), but I’ve found it instructive nonetheless.

First, I made the mistake of thinking that my success during that three weeks and other times was because of my goodness.  It wasn’t.  When I lost my external frame, my success evaporated.  Virtue doesn’t attract women.  Red Pill.

However, although goodness most decidedly doesn’t act as an attractant, so long as sufficient attractants remain in place, goodness can act as an adherent.  You’ve got to Game your wife if you want her to stay attracted to you, but you need something else if you really want her to bond.

Machiavelli was completely correct when he said that it’s better to be feared than loved; fear is the primal and without it the fluffy stuff evaporates.

Even better is to be both feared and loved.  You can get a lot done with slave labor, but you can accomplish even more with employees who feel valued, so long as they can tell that you’re the one who’s got them by the short and curlies.  The relatively free markets of America supplied the Soviet slave state during World War II.  Likewise, you can get a lot from a woman if you can dominate her into tingling for you, but you’ll get even more if she’s so enthralled with you that she hardly even recognizes that you’re dominating her, that to her your thoughts almost feel as if they’re her own.

Yes, you’ll still get tested.  She’ll never be you.  Since the Garden she’s wired to make sure you’ve still got it.  You need sticks to control her nether regions, but carrots are sometimes needed to dominate her heart.+

I’ve had some problems creating frame, but once my frame has been established, I’ve only lost it once.  My Game abilities increase with time.  I’m still working on approaches, but I’m great on dates, and after that the relationship last exactly as long as I want it to.  I’ve suffered just like every other guy when it comes to getting a woman’s attention, but I don’t really understand what it’s like to lose it.

So I’m going to share some of what I’ve got, and I don’t care how many times I get called a mangina.  Game is about a man getting what he wants out of life, and what I want is what God wants (to the fullest extent of my understanding).  That requires recognizing a woman’s dark side, but it also requires recognizing that she’s got a soul that matters just as much as mine.

This requires not starting relationships with women when I already know we’re going to break up, it means I have to keep some of my arrows in the quiver for a while, and although a part of me would love to use my Endgame as much as Roosh, I’m hoping to use it only one more time.

After that, it won’t be necessary.

 

* For elaborate and boring reasons, I didn’t have the option to make the cabbie leave and come back later.

+ The balance required between the two varies according to how evolved the woman is.  Sticks matter to all of them, carrots matter more to the good ones.  I’ll explore that later.

 

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47 Responses to The Quiver

  1. donalgraeme says:

    It is too late to comment in depth, but your talk about “goodness” supports my model of Alpha and Beta as attributes on two different axis.

  2. Peregrine John says:

    donal, I believe Athol thinks of the attributes similarly, though he does not (to my knowledge) ever describe them quite that way, more like independent and not necessarily connected settings. I like the notion you are describing, since it suggests regions of results that come from their combination at certain parts of the axes. Definitely adding that to the internal language.

    • Martel says:

      I do most of my manosphere reading at work (writing at home or starbucks), and for some reason MMSL runs afoul of the company filters. I therefore can’t compare our concepts.

      Still, thanks for the heads up. If you know any specific posts I should hop on when I’m home, let me know.

  3. Alan K says:

    I believe every word. I know from similar experiences that it’s possible – even easy – to entirely dominate a woman; taking ownership of her body and mind. “to her your thoughts almost feel as if they’re her own” Exactly. They are built to respond this way when a man takes a firm hold.

    It’s a choice for you (as it was for me) when and how to exercise this level of control. If you know your own mind and choose wisely, you’ll likely get exactly want you want. I did.

    Some men just need to be reminded; others need to be instructed from scratch; some will never believe, no matter what proof is offered. I’ve been told many times that my experiences aren’t real; I must be lying, I can’t really exist. I don’t bother telling my stories anymore, because it’s a waste of time. Maybe you’ll succeed, where I’ve failed. I hope so. Men are missing a lot of basic training. Do what you can; keep telling the truth.

    • Martel says:

      Thanks.

      Obviously certain aspects of my religious outlook didn’t take hold at the time, but others did. When I realized how much power I had, I couldn’t let go of the idea that I needed to use it properly. It’s easier to get that kind of power when you’re ruthless, somehow I got it while being ruthfull (new word?). While traveling, it’s in the back of each girl’s mind that things aren’t going to last. When it was a girl from across town, no matter how much I’d say “this isn’t going to get serious”, she couldn’t let go.

      I don’t want to create alpha widows, but I’ve created a couple even while holding back. I love the feeling I get from taking control like this; few things make me feel more alive. But I want to take control in the way I should and help others do the same.

      I’m glad you pulled it off.

      • Alan K says:

        I’m glad, too. It kept me out of a lot of trouble. Your conscience is functioning properly, helping you to avoid pitfalls. If you continue rejecting lies and seeing women for what they truly are, you’ll get what you want. And then, you’ll face bigger challenges — life is funny that way.

      • domagoj1978 says:

        In the begining I did an alpha exit (Solomon II Blog: The Alpha Exit: Tin Man Edition) until I learned how much it hurts girls.Then I begun to do the “beta exit” and just make relationship fizz away until there is nothing there. Sure it takes a few weeks but I’m spared late night booty calls and I can actually be friends with them after a while.

  4. Alan K says:

    “It’s easier to get that kind of power when you’re ruthless, somehow I got it while being ruthfull (new word?).”

    This is the thing; it’s not ironic at all. Even during your “wilder” days, you were probably telegraphing a deeper intent that the gals picked up on. I’m deadly serious. Barely concealed self restraint is absolutely intoxicating to many “better quality” women. My wife has explained and demonstrated this to me in vivid detail. I didn’t realize the effect that I was pressing upon her back then, but she remembers it distinctly, to this day. I truly didn’t know.

    Many frustrated men display strong emotions, but they indicate desperation or fear instead of power or mastery. It’s a horrible disconnect.

    • Martel says:

      Fascinating (although I stand by “ironic”, too), but it makes sense.

      “Barely concealed self restraint is absolutely intoxicating to many ‘better quality’ women.”

      If you (or anybody else) is either albe to elaborate on this or refer me to a blog post or something that has, I’d be much oblidged. I’m trying to how the female sex drive manifests itself in different types of women, and any knowledge here would help. If you don’t want to have to go into too much detail in a comment, feel free to email something to the address in the “full profie” under the hammer pic to the right.

      Another weird phenomenon from the time was how when I was in a party environment where everybody else was getting laid, I couldn’t. But then I’d go to someplace off the beaten path, or somewhere that only more interesting travelers would hit and I couldn’t beat them off with a stick.

      This also fits in with your thesis, I’m just not sure how yet.

      • Alan K says:

        Just a quick hit: At a party, everything is skin-deep. You’re operating (by default) on an emotional level that resonates with women, especially when they are not distracted by noise and chaos. It’s logistics, mainly.

  5. Keep going man, you’ve just scratched the surface of what this stuff can really do.

  6. DeNihilist says:

    Like looking in the mirror! Had times of “beating them off with a stick” and times of just beating off. 🙂

    A couple of comments from the woman you revealed, I heard verbatim. Looking back, the only thing I can see as any part of game, was that when I was in a streak, I would look directly into their eyes, and let myself disappear. More then one lass told me that what attracted them to me, was “I lost myself in your eyes”

    • Martel says:

      That’s a fun one. For whatever reason, I have no problem looking into a woman’s eyes, and for some reason that makes them think you can see their soul or something. It creates some weird mix of vulnerability and security.

      • earl says:

        Things really changed for me when I was able to look into a woman’s eyes and not feel uncomfortable myself. This happened once I finally took to the task of cleaning up my own soul.

  7. I’m excited to see what you got. I know I’ve had a lot of luck with the game I have when around…. Questionable, women. I’ve got some with Christian women, but while I might be one of the more outgoing of the bunch there, I still take great pains not to cross lines I’d have boldly done so before. Doing so would strike me as inappropriate at the least.

    • Martel says:

      There’s a pattern to some of what I do, and I’ll share parts of it. However, I suspect that others with Game knowledge may well be able to build on what I’ve stumbled onto.

      With good girls there’s a careful balance to strike (which wouldn’t be there if our entire mating ritual weren’t such a mess). Boldness can work (if the score’s the only goal), or it can backfire in a huge way. To know when to “strike” requires getting to know them pretty well, but doing that runs the risk of getting friend-zoned if don’t maintain your frame.

      Some of this other dudes know way better than me, but there are a couple of patterns I’ve used that merge what should work with what actually works. This is what quality women want, and what quality men want to be.

      What I won’t share unless I know somebody really well is my Endgame. Once I get the kiss, what happens after that is entirely up to me, but she thinks she’s being the aggressor. The drawback to it is that it cuts her deep, and unless a guy’s really careful afterwards (or commits to her), she’s alpha-widowed.

      • donalgraeme says:

        Count me as also interested in this. I’ve been careful how I implement various “game” practices, and I’m curious how you handle delicate approaches.

      • Martel says:

        Whether or not I’ll be of held depends on what you mean by “delicate approaches”. If that somehow relates to simply “approaching”, that’s not my strong suit (although i’m working on it with the same person who’s working with you). if you mean how to incorporate higher beliefs into Game, I might be able to. In today’s world you’ve got to be more Alpha than the loud fratboys, and that’s not easy, but there are some tools we have that they never will. I’ve used “beta traits” to my advantage, but only when able to keep the strong Alpha frame. Some of what I’ll get into will actually be counter-productive for any guy who hasn’t learned to get a woman’s tingle yet. (I’m not implying that’s you because I have no idea where you are).

      • donalgraeme says:

        Approach was the wrong word, I meant close.

  8. earl says:

    Even in the bluest of my blue pill days…I was still able to get alone with women or even have them in my bed. In college, it didn’t even take much if any game. What stopped me from going all the way was my conscience…like it or not fornication does invite a lot of bad things into a person’s life.

    So this whole story about guys who don’t have sex…can’t get it…is entirely false. If you have a dick and a pulse…you can certainly get sex from a woman easily in this day and age. Birth control and alcohol make it basically a slam dunk for many lesser men.

    • DeNihilist says:

      Earl, thanks for sharing. Never thought of myself as an Alfalfa dude when I was single, yet had decent success with the ladies. Of course that was thirty years ago, so was not sure if the AFBP theory was true or not.

      I think that the right stat is Alfalfa’s have 85% of the sex with the 15% of woman who are very promiscuous. But in my experience, the majority of women I know/have met are not lay on their back tingle seeking slut missiles.

  9. Stingray says:

    Thank you for your discretion, Martel. It is very much appreciated. While you might get some blow back with what you are talking about, it’s real nonetheless. Here’s the thing. Women have a base nature of uninhibited hypergamy, solipsism, and a desire to dominate and compete with men. This base nature is heavily competing with another instinct to be lead by a dominate, yet loving man. We somehow want to be able to have both of these things simultaneously and that is what society is telling us we should go after. But given that these things are almost polar opposites, it cannot be. Women go for the quick and dirty highs of attention in their youth and then miss the opportunities to find a high status dominate man who will love us.

    Add to this that most women have zero understanding of what love actually is and it gets real messy real fast. But we want it, regardless. And we somehow know it when we see it. There are men who are dominate with game and at the same time display qualities that scream THIS MAN WILL LOVE A WOMAN WITH EVERYTHING HE IS FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. And, by God, we want to be that woman. Only, we can’t verbalize it because we can’t understand it. We can feel it though. And we will fight against that feeling with our hamsters, because it can be a very scary thing. Then imagine the full power of the hamster when not chosen by this man.

    This is when women will pull out all the stops and say things like this man can’t get sex, has a small penis and what have you. She will then go to the next available alfalfa (this is hilarious, by the way!) whom, by virtue of his ability to draw attention to himself, may seem of higher status than the man who got away. And in certain aspect, he is of higher status. Only, those aspects count for short term highs and not long term happiness. At the end of the day, it is the men whom display the long term status markers, whom we fall in love with and want to capture, as it were. We want to capture you and then have you dominate us. And again, we cannot admit this even to ourselves.

    Eesh, I’m not doing a very good job explaining all of this.

    • Martel says:

      I’ve seen worse 🙂

      I think it’s partly that they seem contradictory, but also that they’re so rare. In other eras when we raised boys to be men, it was a lot more common for the biggest badass in the room and the dude who was the most devoted to his family to be the same guy. It didn’t happen a lot, but it did happen.

      “Then imagine the full power of the hamster when not chosen by this man.” I don’t only have to imagine it, I’ve seen it (although the anger was directed more at themselves than at me). Single moms I think are more naturally in tuned with what you describe (motherhood brings out some traits that would serve every woman well if only she developed them before having the kid), and I can’t go near them. They always “accidentally” introduce me to the kids before I agree to meet them, and the kids go nuts for me. The little boys see me as their role model and the little girls can’t stop hugging me. This makes little moms get even more clingy, so I get a LOT of power very fast, but when I know it’s not going to work out, I know I’ll be hurting little Tracy, too, and I don’t want that.

      You may not make as much sense as you want, but I think you make more sense than you think.

    • Alan K says:

      Stingray, Martel:

      You are both hitting at or near the bullseye, coming from your respective viewpoints. I’ll definitely cosign both comments. The critical takeaway is “seemingly contradictory traits in men.” But they aren’t mutually exclusive, at all.

      strong man + wise man = frothing feminine mess of desire

      When either quality falls off, the result is just a mess. It used to be expected that the best family man was also the most ruthless and determined when protecting (and enjoying) his wife and kids.

    • Peregrine John says:

      That was a not very good job? Hell’s bells, that made more sense than almost anything else I’ve read on the topic.

      Oh, and by the bye: By God, we want to be the man who projects that set of qualities. As Joan of Argghh! recently observed, there’s a romantic core that is not to be underestimated.

  10. DeNihilist says:

    StingRay, great description.

    So looking at it from an Eastern philosophic way, we contain both male and female energy, one just happens to be the dominant most of the time, can we not deduce which trait, hippogamy or dominance, is more male orientated? Or do they arise from the same origin? Hippogamy is after all a form of dominance, in that this supposed trait, pushes the female to relentlessly seek higher status, therefore a more dominant position.

    • Martel says:

      This reminds me of an observation I’ve almost brought up a few times but never have. When you look at the yin-yang symbol, notice the little black dot in the white part and the little white dot in the black one.

      Then apply this to gender. I think that the most attractive males (male being white for the sake of argument here) have that little black feminine dot in there, and the most attractive females have that little part of white.

      We want a woman who’s fundamentally sweet and feminine but with just a little dot of spunk, fight, verve, etc. I think they want a man who’s fundamentally masculine with just a dash of tenderness, vulnerability, etc.

      Most modern males don’t have a little black dot, the black crowds out almost all of the white. So, in the Manosphere we learn to get rid of the black in ourselves, and we need to because we’ve to so damn much of it.

      But then sometimes we take it too far and get rid of the black dot altogether.

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  12. Hannah says:

    Nicely worded post Martel! The topic you’ve explored resonates with me in many ways. . .

    Some random observations –

    There are some people in life that are somewhat magnetising and tend to draw others in – perhaps without even realising their power. They attract, they dominate, they create followers. For such a person, things tend to get intense very quickly. ‘Casual’ is not really an option.
    You sound like such a person.

    @Martel:
    “In other eras when we raised boys to be men, it was a lot more common for the biggest badass in the room and the dude who was the most devoted to his family to be the same guy.”

    I read somewhere in these parts recently about a guy inducing ‘tingles’ for his girlfriend as he verbally abused some homeless guy. Apparently it increased his power….

    Meh.

    One of the most vivid memories I have of heightened attraction towards my husband when I first met him was in witnessing him interact with people down on their luck.
    My man was the guy that people wanted to be like, wanted to impress and wanted to stay on side with. He demanded respect wherever he went partly because of his frame, partly because he was known to be that guy in the room you described. Since becoming a Christian, the reputation has been put to death, but he hasn’t changed.
    What I am still attracted to about his behaviour is that he doesn’t try to impress anyone, yet is respectful to everyone, and he stops to lend a hand to the walking wounded..
    Just today he came home from getting fish and chips with our littlies and told me he bought a burger and drink for some homeless guy 🙂
    I love my man for so many reasons but his kindness to those in need is right up there.
    Even in the midst of our unorthodox courtship in the underbelly of life, my strong man’s heart sent an incredible message of devotion, loyalty and faithfulness that has never wavered.
    I consider it an honour that he deemed me to be the woman worthy of his love.

    @Martel:
    “I have no problem looking into a woman’s eyes, and for some reason that makes them think you can see their soul or something. It creates some weird mix of vulnerability and security.”

    This makes you appear FEARLESS to the female which translates to her feeling the simultaneous contrast of vulnerability and security. This is where we women live best!

    @Alan Kay:
    “strong man + wise man = frothing feminine mess of desire”
    Fantastic 🙂

    Stingray, I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
    “We want to capture you and then have you dominate us”
    May I suggest a possible small modification?

    “We want to CAPTIVATE you and then have you dominate us.”
    If we capture a man he may in time feel trapped. Instead we need to be captivating.

    Ultimately we want a man to be so enchanted by us that he is willing to own, consume, possess us. To be the object of such a man’s love and desire is a truly beautiful thing to cherish.

    • Martel says:

      How nice of you to stop by, Hannah.

      “They attract, they dominate, they create followers. For such a person, things tend to get intense very quickly. ‘Casual’ is not really an option. You sound like such a person.”

      Correct, but what I’ve found is that without properly harnessing that intensity, it can either come across as too intense too quick, or it gets weirdly stifled and comes across as especially bland (oddly enough). I suppose you could make an analogy with a slingshot and jet fight. After one week of training, the guy with the slingshot can do a lot more damage than the guy with the jet, but eventually, if he sticks at it, the pilot’s way better off.

      “‘I read somewhere in these parts recently about a guy inducing ‘tingles’ for his girlfriend as he verbally abused some homeless guy. Apparently it increased his power’….Meh.”

      Sadly, that type of stuff works. You may not like it, but you have an ALPHA+ in your life, so some lowlife isn’t going to get you going. Other women aren’t so lucky, or perhaps aren’t as deserving.

      I don’t doubt what you’re saying about how your husband drew you in, but we males have to be careful when we listen to such anecdotes. Obviously, your husband had what it took to be attractive to women even without his goodness; I get the impression he would have had women lining up for his attention even if he were in a street gang. Like I said in the post, goodness can be an adherent, but it’s not the underlying attractive force.

      I’m not saying you disagree with me, but I’ve got to make sure my male readers are aware that we can’t EVER forget about the underlying, instinctual aspects of this whole thing. We who want something more than poon merely need to direct those basic drives in a higher direction.

      When we merge the instinctual with the spiritual, we’ll get the type of devotion you describe, and it’s a more intense devotion than the lowlifes will ever experience.

  13. earl says:

    “strong man + wise man = frothing feminine mess of desire”

    King Solomon approved.

    And of note…you have to be both strong and wise or else neither will work.

    • Stingray says:

      Sadly, any type of overt masculinity is going to attract women thees days. Abhorrent or not. Overt masculinity has been so demonized that women see it rarely and when they do, they are instantly intrigued. For some women, it’s stops at that intrigue and they move on. At the end of the day, however she will have remembered this man’s face. It may disgust her, but his face will be there whereas all of the other men she came across that day she will have zero recollection of. Other women, lacking in, well several things, will see this masculinity that they have rarely if ever experienced and be instantly drawn in. They will excuse any of the behavior because they crave this masculinity. In a very real way, most need it and they will take it where they can get it. I am of the opinion that most women crave the strong man + wise man above all else, but given that there are few men like this out there and even fewer wishing to marry, women will settle for any type of strength they can find.

      • Alan K says:

        I’ve wondered about the effect of “low expectations.” You are confirming it.

        Dearth of quality on both sides is causing some really disturbing results. Men play, “Which slut do I want, tonight?” And women play, “Which bad boy can I reasonably tame?” A mere hint of masculine strength (degenerated to thuggish arrogance) or female beauty (displaced by bare skin and inebriation) triggers our deeply ingrained instincts — because we are starved for the real thing.

        My wife and I were discussing this recently after watching The Thomas Crown Affair (1968). It contrasts with the newer (2000) version in many mays, but we noticed one thing in particular. Steve McQueen and Faye Dunaway smoke a few scenes while barely touching each other. The smoldering looks, the advances, the retreats, the definite interest with an uncertain outcome; this is a real dance between a man and a woman! This is what I remember — and still try to maintain in marriage. Laziness kills attraction. We have all gotten soft.

      • DeNihilist says:

        “we have all gotten soft”

        Allan, I thought that is why Viagra was invented!

        🙂

  14. Martel says:

    “And of note…you have to be both strong and wise or else neither will work.”

    You have to have both if you want the type of reaction I describe, but if you just want a lot of notches, strength alone will work.

    To echo Machiavelli, fear alone will get you somewhere, love alone won’t. Merge the two and you’ll get everywhere.,

  15. Alan K says:

    Earl and Martel, excellent connections, both of you. Makes it easy to see where the trail leads…

    “And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.”

    He accumulated a great quantity of women to enjoy, but forfeited his quality of life in the process. In the end, he cried, “all is vanity” and left us with the simple exhortation, “Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest.” Notable advice from a man who possessed so much power and treasure.

    Our job is to make it happen in a contrary world, avoiding the common, hurtful and erroneous attitudes about romance and disposability. In fact, we often get lousy advice from both ends of the moral spectrum. Choose well and stand your ground. You’ll have the women that you deserve.

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