Rhetorical Bloodsport

In my last post, I described an artful, perhaps even soft, way to get through to a female rhetorically.  However, although in no way do I reject the technique I described, I don’t want to encourage my readers to make the same mistake our society makes regarding chivalry.

I sometimes forget that I”m a “natural” at this stuff.  Sometimes I can explain what I do, but sometimes I’m able to take over a conversation and I have no idea how I did it.  Whether or not I’m loud, people listen.  I’ve developed an aura of authority regarding politics, so not unlike how Roissy could probably break a bunch of his own rules and still be successful with women, I can break most of these rules and still succeed.

So I feel it important to emphasize the following:

When attempting to persuade another person to adopt an idea or concept, under NO circumstances can you allow yourself to be dominated by any other party.

The problem is that men often assume that dominance means only that you’re more loud or pushy than your opponent.  It might mean that, but it doesn’t have to.

More often, dominance is a reflection of who controls the frame.  If you’re actually correct about what you’re hoping to convey, you want your frame to be as dialectical as possible:  rational discussion at a normal volume in which people actually address the points that the other person is making.

(When arguing in a blog post or on Facebook, non-verbal cues are obviously irrelevant.  However, what I described in my last post can work in either case.  If anything, it’s even more effective when you can amplify your words with cocky smiles or sincere expressions of sadness.)

In my last post, I described how an effective way to make a dialectical argument with a sensitive female is to work with her compassionate emotions instead of against them (after all, there’s nothing wrong with compassion per se, it’s only wrong when it clouds out rational judgement).  I’ve also discussed how to “de-frame” an opponent who dominates in non-verbal ways like being loud.  Sometimes simply calling attention to what the other guy’s doing is the best way to get him to stop.

Yet sometimes that won’t work.  For example, with beasts like this and this (the “fucking scum” sweetheart at 3:55), it’s going to be damn hard to de-frame them, and calling on their compassionate feminine natures sure as hell won’t work.  (I’ve already posted the first video, and I’m afraid if I embed the first my site will implode.)

But if you’re going to engage, you’ve still got to win.  This is where I apply the maxim:

Don’t draw first blood, but draw LOTS of blood.

However, only do this if you KNOW you can win.  You must be able to yell more loudly than they can, you’ve got to be intimidating when you get in somebody’s face, and you have to know what the hell you’re talking about.  If you try this and lose, you will have been shot down in flames and will do your cause (and your own self-image) far more harm than good.

First, as with normal people, try de-framing or whatever else you can to ensure that any neutral observers watching your conversation know that you’re the reasonable one.  Everybody watching sees at least some variation of Reasonable You vs. Banshee.

If it works, great:  on to the dialectic.  If it doesn’t, issue a warning.  “Whoah, you’re going a bit too far here.”  “I’m just trying to…” “I’d really rather not have you in my face like this.  Back off.”

You’ve drawn a line.  If she crosses it, destroy.

For the “female” in the first video (these quotes are not exact, would be interspersed with other sounds, etc.):

Stop screeching!  Why the HELL should I “shut the fuck up” when you’re the one burning everybody’s ears off every time you open your mouth?


You’re not going to make everybody else “shut the fuck up” just so you can make some speech.  I’ll address your points but hand them to one of your henchwomen to read because you literally have the most unpleasant voice I have ever heard, and I wish I was exaggerating.  But it’s going to be a conversation, (slowly) with give and take.  Do you understand?  Nobody appointed you queen.

Besides, if she reads your points somebody might actually pay attention to their content.  You’re too much like what Dolores Umbridge would sound like if she talked like Yoko Ono sings.  So you say that feminism opposes the notion that women are better caregivers than men…

Nothing deflates excessive moxie in a woman with a shrill voice quite as quickly as being told she screeches.

Or regarding sister “fucking scum” in the second video:

The only “fucking scum” around here is that greasy shit in your hair.  You think people are going to take you more seriously because you don’t take a shower?  How does becoming a walking grime farm overcome the patriarchy?  Is is some kind of rape deterrent?

By the way, every time you say Farrell supports rape you’re just betraying your ignorance.  You have no idea what he actually said.  None.  You just repeat the mindless crap other people put into your head.  What did he actually say?  You don’t even know do you?  If you don’t know, then shut the hell up.

By the way, if it wasn’t for the “oppressive patriarchal system” you’d be lying on your ass in a pool of blood right now.  Keep trying to get treated like a man and one of these days you will be.

I reiterate, only do this if you’re certain that you won’t end up in a screaming match.  This means that both you and her must know that if the two of you are talking simultaneously that you will be the person everybody hears.  Bill O’Reilly and Chris Matthews are experts at this (even though they’re idiots), you may not be.  Being tall and physically intimidating helps, but it’s not essential.

If you achieve your objective and turn them into a sniveling idiot, or even get them to engage you as a human being (highly unlikely), you win and win big.  If you get into a screaming match, you might get your buddies excited for a minute or two, but that’s about it.

If they get the best of you, you would have been far better off quietly observing on the sidelines or occasionally sniping with snide comments.

Also, this works better for men.  Women with a naturally assertive demeanor (like Ann Coulter) can do this, but they’re more likely to alienate neutral observers by coming across as bitchy.  More feminine women should probably use another variation, but I don’t have time to write about it tonight.

This is one of those situations in which the ability to do something helps ensure you won’t have to do it.  I can count the times I’ve done this one hand, largely because everybody somehow just knows not to push me too far.

But, there are some serious idiots out there, so it does happen.

And if you don’t simply exude sufficient authority to get people to comply with your frame, pulling off something like this once or twice can be a great way to develop it.

This entry was posted in Alpha, Politics, Rhetoric. Bookmark the permalink.

3 Responses to Rhetorical Bloodsport

  1. Tom White says:

    How much success have you had with doing this? I’ve found people seldom listen to argument unless they’re already open to being persuaded in the first place. Most people only become open to being persuaded after seeing enough distance between their beliefs than reality.
    “Time makes more converts than reason” (T.Paine).

    • Martel says:

      I haven’t done it a lot, and it’s not my preferred modus operandi, but I have gotten through to people this way (not those I rip into who slink away, the audience).

      My rhetoric is mostly softer, and softer is usually better. However, I think it’s important to know how and when to use this. When somebody’s in your face or calling you “racist”, responding with reasoned dignity rarely works as well as making them hurt.

  2. Pingback: Lightning Round – 2013/05/22 | Free Northerner

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